1boringperson ([info]1boringperson) wrote,
@ 2008-09-26 13:02:00
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Current mood: conflicted
Entry tags:personal, religion

Agnostic baptism
There's been another addition to my household recently, so we're talking to start baptism. All fine and good, but now the pastor is inquiring if it might be a pair of baptisms. You see, while my wife and kids (except the new one) are all baptized, I'm not.

I was not brought up in a religious home. My father calls himself an agnostic and is simply apathetic towards religion. My mother was apparently fairly religious when she was younger (through college), but now just doesn't talk about it. I tried to engage her in conversation about it once lately, but it went nowhere. As a result, I guess, I find the topic of religion fascinating, but do not consider myself a believer.

My wife grew up with religion, but was non-practicing when we met, dated, and married. A few years ago, however, some friends invited our oldest to join their child at their church's summer music camp. Since then, we've become regular attendees and, after some months, my wife and children were baptized. I opted not to do so at the time because of my conflicted views.

At the end of 2006 I went through a tough process of deciding just what I believed. I ended up deciding to label myself agnostic, simply because so much of the atheist views I was reading seemed just as smug about God's non-existence as the theists' belief that He does. In short, I came to the conclusion that Christianity (and other religions) seem like an awfully complicated set of steps for a supreme being to go through to gather believers, but there's still that nagging question of where the universe came from and just how improbable the evolution of sentient life would seem to be. In essence, the "atheist with doubts" definition of "agnostic" pegs me.

I have not shared this with anyone who actually knows me, including my wife. I wanted to talk to her at the time, and made my mind up to do it several times, but never followed through. I fear it will crush her. The topic has brought her to tears before, which I can understand when you think your loved one is going to, well, at least be denied entrance into heaven when he dies. The fact that I simply don't see any evidence that there is an afterlife at all will hardly be comforting. "Live and let live" only goes so far when it's believer vs. non-believer.

Obviously, the simple solution is to get baptized. If I truly don't believe in God, it shouldn't matter, should it? I tell myself that I just don't want to be hypocritical, but there's more to it. There's an element of doubt. What if I'm wrong?

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29 (New American Standard Bible)

So, to summarize, I'm attending a church almost weekly, but except for the fact I'm not baptized and therefore don't take communion, no one knows I'm not truly one of the faithful. Seems I'm already fairly hypocritical, so why not get baptized? Fear, it would seem. So what now?



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[info]dvandom
2008-09-26 06:18 pm UTC (link)
It's one thing to be baptized as a child, as the assumption is that they can't work out beliefs for themselves yet. But baptism as an adult is a somewhat more serious matter. I'd say don't do it until and unless you're willing to buy into not just faith, but the specific doctrines of the church. Going to worship services when you're not certain of your faith isn't hypocritical, but saying in essence "sign me up" when you don't believe is.

And even if you decide you believe in God in general, that church may not be a good fit for how you express that belief. It would be a mistake to be baptized just for the sake of fitting in.

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[info]1boringperson
2008-11-05 11:10 pm UTC (link)
A much belated thank you for being the voice of reason, Dave. (Hope you've got "e-mail responses" turned on.) I'd already told my wife that a double baptism was unlikely when she mentioned the pastor asking. (I failed to mention in the entry that it wasn't a direct question, didn't I?) He never asked me directly; the subject was just quietly dropped.

Really, you didn't say anything I didn't already feel, just helped my resolution. Eventually I'm going to go to a Universal Unitarian service since I suspect that if any religion fits me, that would be it. Anyway, thanks again.

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[info]foomf
2009-12-28 04:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad to see you listened to Dave. Baptism for an adult is like marriage or joining the armed forces. It isn't simply that you'd be going through a ritual binding to a god you don't believe in, but also that you are connecting yourself by public pledge to the people of THAT church, so they have a responsibility to look out for your spiritual well-being. That might not be a can of worms you would want to open.

That particular passage regarding the Eucharist is an interesting one. Several decades ago in a history of christianity course at University of Oregon, the prof touched on that particular passage for a good 10 minutes. Besides the Bible we do have considerable other information about practices in the early church, and one of them was that the Eucharist was celebrated as part of the common meal. Since everything was the property of God, they shared everything together, and that included all the members of the church joining for a communal meal, which was less easily abused in Jerusalem than in Rome, and in the Roman cities, when the tradition and habit was to go to public feasts and engage in deplorable public gluttony and excess, you can see where things were a problem. (This was one of the reasons the Romans passed so many "sumptuary" laws prohibiting that kind of thing.)

(Why am I answering an over-a-year-old post? Suicide Squid, of course :) )

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[info]1boringperson
2009-12-28 10:39 pm UTC (link)
Well, I did listen to him at the time, but since then I've been reborn and gave up all my sinful ways, which is why I hardly post to LiveJournal any more.

Not! (I just got involved with Facebook, that's all.) Interesting information on the passage I quoted. Thanks for that. Still haven't been to a UU church, though.

Oddly, there's only one person at the church that seems interested in my lack of religion. She's asked me twice about getting baptized. The most recent time, a couple months ago(?), I told her I considered myself agnostic. This was after her polite opening of, "you can tell me if it's none of my business." Whether that was a reverse psychology ploy or not, I guess it worked. I forget her exact words, but it was something along the lines of not giving up on me. I said that's fine. I figure someone praying for me isn't going to do me any harm.

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